<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: You want to fix Critical Mass?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://seattle.metblogs.com/2008/07/28/you-want-to-fix-critical-mass/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://seattle.metblogs.com/2008/07/28/you-want-to-fix-critical-mass/</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 29 Nov 2010 17:32:19 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Stop the presses! And blame the bikers! &#171; Bikinginla&#8217;s Weblog</title>
		<link>http://seattle.metblogs.com/2008/07/28/you-want-to-fix-critical-mass/comment-page-1/#comment-15451</link>
		<dc:creator>Stop the presses! And blame the bikers! &#171; Bikinginla&#8217;s Weblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 19:03:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattle.metblogs.com/2008/07/28/you-want-to-fix-critical-mass/#comment-15451</guid>
		<description>[...] incident, so I’ll let other writers address the questions of whether CM is right or wrong, and how — or whether — it can be [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] incident, so I’ll let other writers address the questions of whether CM is right or wrong, and how — or whether — it can be [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Blameless victims? Or two-wheeled vigilantes? &#171; Bikinginla&#8217;s Weblog</title>
		<link>http://seattle.metblogs.com/2008/07/28/you-want-to-fix-critical-mass/comment-page-1/#comment-15426</link>
		<dc:creator>Blameless victims? Or two-wheeled vigilantes? &#171; Bikinginla&#8217;s Weblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 16:39:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattle.metblogs.com/2008/07/28/you-want-to-fix-critical-mass/#comment-15426</guid>
		<description>[...] — ignoring any questions about the propriety and effectiveness of Critical Mass and corking tactics — the cyclists were wrong for retaliating against the driver, however justified they may have [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] — ignoring any questions about the propriety and effectiveness of Critical Mass and corking tactics — the cyclists were wrong for retaliating against the driver, however justified they may have [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: stinkbug</title>
		<link>http://seattle.metblogs.com/2008/07/28/you-want-to-fix-critical-mass/comment-page-1/#comment-15423</link>
		<dc:creator>stinkbug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 15:16:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattle.metblogs.com/2008/07/28/you-want-to-fix-critical-mass/#comment-15423</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s kinda funny that in my response above I mention motorists who stumble upon the Torchlight Parade.  This is from a newer news article:

&quot;Mark, who asked that his last name not be published because he is afraid for his safety, said Monday he found himself and a friend in an unfamiliar part of Seattle about 7 p.m. Friday as they headed to pick up another friend to go out to dinner.  Mark said Monday that he saw the mass of bicyclists and thought he&#039;d accidentally driven into the Seafair Torchlight Parade route, so he pulled into a parking spot along Aloha Street to allow them to pass.&quot;

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008078611_criticalmass29m.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s kinda funny that in my response above I mention motorists who stumble upon the Torchlight Parade.  This is from a newer news article:</p>
<p>&quot;Mark, who asked that his last name not be published because he is afraid for his safety, said Monday he found himself and a friend in an unfamiliar part of Seattle about 7 p.m. Friday as they headed to pick up another friend to go out to dinner.  Mark said Monday that he saw the mass of bicyclists and thought he&#8217;d accidentally driven into the Seafair Torchlight Parade route, so he pulled into a parking spot along Aloha Street to allow them to pass.&quot;</p>
<p><a href="http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008078611_criticalmass29m.html" rel="nofollow">http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008078611_criticalmass29m.html</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: outdoorenthusiast</title>
		<link>http://seattle.metblogs.com/2008/07/28/you-want-to-fix-critical-mass/comment-page-1/#comment-15419</link>
		<dc:creator>outdoorenthusiast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 05:23:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattle.metblogs.com/2008/07/28/you-want-to-fix-critical-mass/#comment-15419</guid>
		<description>Stinkbug, it sounds like Critical Mass needs to do more to inform its riders of its mission.  It definitely sounds like you have a clear understanding of CM&#039;s mission, however, it&#039;s highly probably that many riders are not on the same page.

The next ride should definitely involve some sort of pre-ride expectation announcement to all its riders.  I know many riders may view this as demeaning or too formal, but that only highlights the anarchistic nature of the group.  Leadership is definitely needed within CM, this is true with any large organization that wishes to build a relationship with the community.  The current lack of structure has only lead to relationships within the community being damaged due to the most recent incident.

It&#039;s unfortunate that the image of Seattle&#039;s CM riders has been tarnished (as I see it, you or others may not); but violence is never the answer, even if provoked by irresponsible behavior of a driver.  

The retaliation of the CM riders was the only reason this incident was highlighted in such a manner.  Vigilante justice is plain stupid, go to Texas with that type of behavior and you&#039;ll be welcomed by many.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stinkbug, it sounds like Critical Mass needs to do more to inform its riders of its mission.  It definitely sounds like you have a clear understanding of CM&#8217;s mission, however, it&#8217;s highly probably that many riders are not on the same page.</p>
<p>The next ride should definitely involve some sort of pre-ride expectation announcement to all its riders.  I know many riders may view this as demeaning or too formal, but that only highlights the anarchistic nature of the group.  Leadership is definitely needed within CM, this is true with any large organization that wishes to build a relationship with the community.  The current lack of structure has only lead to relationships within the community being damaged due to the most recent incident.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s unfortunate that the image of Seattle&#8217;s CM riders has been tarnished (as I see it, you or others may not); but violence is never the answer, even if provoked by irresponsible behavior of a driver.  </p>
<p>The retaliation of the CM riders was the only reason this incident was highlighted in such a manner.  Vigilante justice is plain stupid, go to Texas with that type of behavior and you&#8217;ll be welcomed by many.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: stinkbug</title>
		<link>http://seattle.metblogs.com/2008/07/28/you-want-to-fix-critical-mass/comment-page-1/#comment-15418</link>
		<dc:creator>stinkbug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 02:14:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattle.metblogs.com/2008/07/28/you-want-to-fix-critical-mass/#comment-15418</guid>
		<description>Dylan, your post contains some mis-information and some mis-understanding about Critical Mass.

- The time is always announced in advanced.  5:30pm on the last Friday of the month.  The ride typical leaves around 6pm.  (The ride a few days ago didn&#039;t depart until about 6:30pm though.)

- The route isn&#039;t announced in advanced because there&#039;s generally no set route from the get go.  There have been a few times in which a route has been used.   But even if there was a set route for last Friday&#039;s ride and even if it was widely publicized, I doubt that driver would have known about it.  There are still many motorists who are shocked (and frustrated) when they stumble upon the Torchlight Parade or the Seattle Marathon.  

- Bike cops have been involved with past rides.  At what level does the community need to buy into the ride?  

-  Your assertion that CM &quot;cannot point to one single positive thing it’s done to improve conditions for bikers in Seattle&quot; is a bit confusing.  CM isn&#039;t a community group that meets every week to improve the conditions for bikers.  As others will tell you, it&#039;s more of a community-building exercise.  And that can have an impact.  Everything from empowering newer cyclists who are typically afraid of being on busy streets to allowing bike-related networking, something that spawns projects/groups like .83, http://www.ghostcycle.org/ , and http://seattlelikesbikes.org .  And those projects have had an impact (for example, the expanded Stone Way bike path).  There are also smaller positive things like zines, bike repair (and riding) tips, even music, etc. that stem from a group of people coming together. 

- I don&#039;t get your &quot;silence&quot; statement.  There is no vow of silence in CM rides.  *Very often* riders are asked by pedestrians (and motorists) what the ride is about and riders will tell them about CM.  Flyers are often handed out, either general ones about CM or sometimes corking-specific ones letting people know why they are being delayed 90 seconds.  Most riders love spreading the word about CM.  There is no &quot;silence&quot; to can.  Where did you come up with this?

- Problem riders are typically kept in check by others.  Be it a &quot;hey, that&#039;s not cool&quot; or something else.  Jerks aren&#039;t ignored and given free reign to do whatever.  

It&#039;s nice that you want to help &quot;fix&quot; Critical Mass, but I encourage you to learn more about it before listing specific problems, some of which don&#039;t even exist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dylan, your post contains some mis-information and some mis-understanding about Critical Mass.</p>
<p>- The time is always announced in advanced.  5:30pm on the last Friday of the month.  The ride typical leaves around 6pm.  (The ride a few days ago didn&#8217;t depart until about 6:30pm though.)</p>
<p>- The route isn&#8217;t announced in advanced because there&#8217;s generally no set route from the get go.  There have been a few times in which a route has been used.   But even if there was a set route for last Friday&#8217;s ride and even if it was widely publicized, I doubt that driver would have known about it.  There are still many motorists who are shocked (and frustrated) when they stumble upon the Torchlight Parade or the Seattle Marathon.  </p>
<p>- Bike cops have been involved with past rides.  At what level does the community need to buy into the ride?  </p>
<p>-  Your assertion that CM &quot;cannot point to one single positive thing it’s done to improve conditions for bikers in Seattle&quot; is a bit confusing.  CM isn&#8217;t a community group that meets every week to improve the conditions for bikers.  As others will tell you, it&#8217;s more of a community-building exercise.  And that can have an impact.  Everything from empowering newer cyclists who are typically afraid of being on busy streets to allowing bike-related networking, something that spawns projects/groups like .83, <a href="http://www.ghostcycle.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ghostcycle.org/</a> , and <a href="http://seattlelikesbikes.org" rel="nofollow">http://seattlelikesbikes.org</a> .  And those projects have had an impact (for example, the expanded Stone Way bike path).  There are also smaller positive things like zines, bike repair (and riding) tips, even music, etc. that stem from a group of people coming together. </p>
<p>- I don&#8217;t get your &quot;silence&quot; statement.  There is no vow of silence in CM rides.  *Very often* riders are asked by pedestrians (and motorists) what the ride is about and riders will tell them about CM.  Flyers are often handed out, either general ones about CM or sometimes corking-specific ones letting people know why they are being delayed 90 seconds.  Most riders love spreading the word about CM.  There is no &quot;silence&quot; to can.  Where did you come up with this?</p>
<p>- Problem riders are typically kept in check by others.  Be it a &quot;hey, that&#8217;s not cool&quot; or something else.  Jerks aren&#8217;t ignored and given free reign to do whatever.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s nice that you want to help &quot;fix&quot; Critical Mass, but I encourage you to learn more about it before listing specific problems, some of which don&#8217;t even exist.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: outdoorenthusiast</title>
		<link>http://seattle.metblogs.com/2008/07/28/you-want-to-fix-critical-mass/comment-page-1/#comment-15415</link>
		<dc:creator>outdoorenthusiast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 01:36:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattle.metblogs.com/2008/07/28/you-want-to-fix-critical-mass/#comment-15415</guid>
		<description>@ TonyB; in a nutshell, bicyclists should follow the same traffic laws as automobiles and automobile drivers should yield to bicyclists as if they were automobiles.  It&#039;s as simple as that, but not all bicyclists choose to follow all traffic laws, which is where some drivers get confused.  

Great post, I couldn&#039;t have said it better myself!  I happened to be walking around downtown with a friend of mine when the Critical Mass riders were gathering that Friday night.  I wasn&#039;t sure why the bikers were gathering so I asked one of them about the event and he responded conceitedly with &quot;it&#039;s Critical Mass,&quot; as if everybody in the world should know why hundreds of bikers are gathering in the street.  His smug attitude was a complete turn-off to me and my out-of-town friend.

What I noticed about the crowd was the utter chaos and anarchistic behavior present throughout it.  The same bikers that expect cars to yield to them were unyielding to the pedestrians on the sidewalk as they weaved in and out of the crowds.  They hypocritical philisophies some of these bikers have is not representative of the biking community as a whole and I would ask that all bikers not be judged by the actions of a few vigilantes.  Critical Mass of Seattle looks and acts like a bunch of immature adults seeking attention because they ride bicycles.  

I&#039;m an avid mountain and road biker and the one thing I dislike about the biking community is the sometimes over-confident attitudes they display to those that aren&#039;t &quot;in the know&quot; about parts of biking culture.

This is NOT the way to increase the popularity of biking or to win the hearts and minds of automobile drivers.  Vandalizing and assaulting drivers that are in fear of their life with their pregnant wife in the car is also not advisable.  

My friend and I WERE both interested in joining Critical Mass, but this incident has clearly changed our minds and we&#039;ve decided to hang back until Critical Mass of Seattle gets their act together.  I don&#039;t want to be represented by bunch of lawless hooligans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ TonyB; in a nutshell, bicyclists should follow the same traffic laws as automobiles and automobile drivers should yield to bicyclists as if they were automobiles.  It&#8217;s as simple as that, but not all bicyclists choose to follow all traffic laws, which is where some drivers get confused.  </p>
<p>Great post, I couldn&#8217;t have said it better myself!  I happened to be walking around downtown with a friend of mine when the Critical Mass riders were gathering that Friday night.  I wasn&#8217;t sure why the bikers were gathering so I asked one of them about the event and he responded conceitedly with &quot;it&#8217;s Critical Mass,&quot; as if everybody in the world should know why hundreds of bikers are gathering in the street.  His smug attitude was a complete turn-off to me and my out-of-town friend.</p>
<p>What I noticed about the crowd was the utter chaos and anarchistic behavior present throughout it.  The same bikers that expect cars to yield to them were unyielding to the pedestrians on the sidewalk as they weaved in and out of the crowds.  They hypocritical philisophies some of these bikers have is not representative of the biking community as a whole and I would ask that all bikers not be judged by the actions of a few vigilantes.  Critical Mass of Seattle looks and acts like a bunch of immature adults seeking attention because they ride bicycles.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m an avid mountain and road biker and the one thing I dislike about the biking community is the sometimes over-confident attitudes they display to those that aren&#8217;t &quot;in the know&quot; about parts of biking culture.</p>
<p>This is NOT the way to increase the popularity of biking or to win the hearts and minds of automobile drivers.  Vandalizing and assaulting drivers that are in fear of their life with their pregnant wife in the car is also not advisable.  </p>
<p>My friend and I WERE both interested in joining Critical Mass, but this incident has clearly changed our minds and we&#8217;ve decided to hang back until Critical Mass of Seattle gets their act together.  I don&#8217;t want to be represented by bunch of lawless hooligans.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: tonyb</title>
		<link>http://seattle.metblogs.com/2008/07/28/you-want-to-fix-critical-mass/comment-page-1/#comment-15411</link>
		<dc:creator>tonyb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 23:57:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattle.metblogs.com/2008/07/28/you-want-to-fix-critical-mass/#comment-15411</guid>
		<description>Great couple of Dylan!

What can I as a driver do to help promote safe cycling?  I don&#039;t bike at all (and probably never will), but I realize that I need to share the road with them.  The problem that I always have is that they are so damn unpredictable in what rules they do and don&#039;t follow which makes it tough for a driver to figure out what to do and ultimately just creates animosity.  What can Seattle drivers do for their part to help fix the whole cyclists vs. motorist debate that seems to be raging through Seattle right now?  I&#039;m tired of cyclists getting hurt and I&#039;m tired of motorists being intimidated by gangs of cyclists.  I am at a loss as to what to even suggest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great couple of Dylan!</p>
<p>What can I as a driver do to help promote safe cycling?  I don&#8217;t bike at all (and probably never will), but I realize that I need to share the road with them.  The problem that I always have is that they are so damn unpredictable in what rules they do and don&#8217;t follow which makes it tough for a driver to figure out what to do and ultimately just creates animosity.  What can Seattle drivers do for their part to help fix the whole cyclists vs. motorist debate that seems to be raging through Seattle right now?  I&#8217;m tired of cyclists getting hurt and I&#8217;m tired of motorists being intimidated by gangs of cyclists.  I am at a loss as to what to even suggest.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

